From: "drj_saro" <>
> I have heard that Caravan's IN THE LAND OF GREY AND PINK is a great
keyboard-oriented album. Any comments?
glad to be able to _really_ contribute to the list. "Grey & Pink" is a
great album and keys do figure prominently (moreso on 'Nine Feet Underground'
a side-long suite that made up side two of the original vinyl), but don't go
into it expecting to hear anything like Emerson or Wakeman - the name of the
game in Caravan's music is ensemble playing, not flashy solos (although there
are a few). i _love_ Dave Sinclair's organ style, but that's no
guarantee that _you_ will.
From: Thierry SPORTOUCHE <>
Caravan... One of my favourite prog bands... So British, so funny and
inventive, a bit old fashioned now but still surprising. I discovered "In the
Land of" first on cassette then on vinyl, then on CD... I bought "If I
could..." after, still a great album, but number 2 in my opinion. Then there
was "Live", an interesting marriage of
classical and rock, not the masterpiece made by Procol but interesting
despite some lengthy moments. "For girls" is
great too, and "Cunning Stunts" (pun for Stunning Cu*ts!!) is nice too
despite some pop moments. I don't like "For Lilies" (too jazz) and of course
the second part of the band's career (too pop) even if I saw them live at
that time in a tremendous concert in Lyon (early '80's) with the fabulous violinist G. Richardson who published the
superb "Sunset Wadding" (we need a CD reissue!). I have a splendid bootleg
called "For Penguins who..." and even videos (1980's)! I went to Canterbury too...
From: "Grant Penton" <>
Yeah, Pye's Band hit some good musical passages 25-30 years ago. As
long as the Sinclairs were there, they produced a string of inspired tunes
and extended instrumentals. Geoff Richardson added a great
symphonic element on the FGWGPITN to SC period, and I'd like to check out the
later material again someday (lost all interest after the '80 reunion LP with
the black cover). The first LP was a superb debut, and Nine Feet
Underground ranks as the best sidelong piece.
The only video footage I have is also from ITLOG&P, 'Golf Girl (with Dave
playing the organ and mellotron with no horns)'. I can't help but
great strangers with 'WHO-DO-YOU-THINKYOUARE? (with great Wyatt sounding
vocals by Hastings)' playing in my head...
From: "Grant Penton" <>
One last mention about Caravan- FGWGPITN has some great work by Paul
Buckmaster. In the mid 70's (corresponding to my early adolescance) I
really dug Elton John, largely because of the people who played with him -
Karl Jenkins, Rick Wakeman, David Hentchel who later produced Genesis, and
particularly Paul Buckmaster from '70-2, before playing on Third Ear Band's
Macbeth soundtrack. I'd forgotten how much Geoff Richardson and
Buckmaster brought to the post-psychpop Caravan sound, and helped mold it as
it matured... albeit into a somewhat stale but occasionally engagingly fun
progpop band.
I've not much to write on Brooker's band- enjoyed the sidelong piece on
'Shine on Brightly', and a few snippets of brilliance throught the years.
I still hear their last hit "Pandora's Box" in my head because it was played
so often, although I've not actually heard it for 20 years. I've got a
couple of PH videos from the '70 psych era to check out again...
From: "drj_saro" <>
Annotated Caravan Discography (not including compilations)
1 - Caravan (self-titled) 1968
Richard
Sinclair - guitar, bass guitar, vocals
David
Sinclair - organ, piano, vocals
Pye Hastings
- guitar, bass guitar, vocals
Richard
Coughlan - drums
All of the original members of Caravan were members (at one time or another)
of the Wilde Flowers. Pye would sing lead and play lead guitar on his songs,
then do backing vocals and play bass on Richard's songs; while Richard would
sing lead and play lead guitar on his songs, then do backing vocals and play
bass on Pye's songs. Pye stuck mainly to guitar and Richard
to bass after this point. this album is psychedelic eccentric pop - great
stuff if you've a taste for it, but probably an acquired taste. Jimmy
Hastings (Pye's brother) makes an uncredited appearance on "Love Song with
Flute" (he plays the flute, of course).
2 - If I could do it again, I'd do it all over
you 1970
same band as (1) guest Brother James (Hastings) - sax & flute still with an
air of psychedelia, but more ambitious compositions, including the suite "For
Richard" (which the band _still_ play versions of in concert)
3 - In the Land of Grey and Pink 1971
same band as (2), including Jimmy Hastings guest David Grinstead - cannon,
bell, and wind this is the Classic! every track is a bona-fide GEM! features
the side-long epic "nine feet underground". will follow-up with a full review
upon request.
4 - Waterloo Lily 1972
David Sinclair leaves, replaced by Steve Miller (brother of guitartist Phil
Miller of Matching Mole, Hatfield & the North, National Health). guests - Lol
Coxhill -sax, Phil Miller - guitar, Barry Robinson - oboe, Mike Cotton -
trumpet, and of course - Jimmy Hastings - flute & sax. this is a difficult
album for some Caravan fans - the Miller Brothers make this a much
jazzier affair (at least i _think_ it's their influence), and while i don't
like it as much as either 3 or 5, i sitll _do_ like it. stand-out track "the
Love in Your Eye" - another 12-minute suite.
5 - For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night 1973
Steve Miller leaves, replaced by David Sinclair. Richard Sinclair leaves,
replaced by John G. Perry. Geoffrey Richardson ( viola ) joins band,
not replacing anyone!; guests - Frank Ricotti - congas (who later played with
Rick Wakeman), Rupert Hine - ARP synth, Paul Buckmaster - electric cello, an
8-piece wind/brass ensemble (including Jimmy Hastings), and an unspecified
orchestra. the 10-minute "L'Auberge du Sanglier" suite features Caravan's
arrangement of the Soft Machine tune "Backwards" (Mike Ratledge).
The suite also features the orchestra (with arrangements by Martyn Ford and
John Bell). the psychedelia is gone (for the most part), this is leaning into
symphonic-prog, but not just "pretty" stuff, there is some grit here too and
some of Caravan's hardest rocking tunes (but in a tasteful, non-commercial,
way).
6 - Caravan & the New Symphonia 1974
same band as (5); guests - 40-piece orchestra (among whom are Godfrey Salmon
(who conducted ELP's "Works" orchestra). Gavyn Wright, Helen Liebmann, Jimmy
Hastings, Paul Beer, Skaila Kanga, and Morris Pert) with "Introduction"
written by Simon Jeffes (Penguin Cafe Orchestra), re-arrangements of "The
Love in Your Eye" and "For Richard", and two new songs written especially for
the project.
7 - Cunning Stunts 1975
JGPerry leaves, replaced by Mike Wedgewood (from Curved Air); guests - Jimmy
Hastings & an uncredited brass-section "The Show of our Lives" is a _great_
lead-off track , "the Fear and Loathing in Tolling Park Rag" consisting
entirely of massively over-dubbed violas by G.Richardson, and the side-long
epic "The Dabsong Conshirtoe" are all worthy of note.
8 - Blind Dog at St.Dunstans 1976
Dave Sinclair leaves (again), replaced by Jan Scheelhaas; guests - Jimmy
Hastings plus Irene & Doreen Chanter - vocals two lengthy suites again: "Oik"
(13-min) and "All the Way" (9-min), (and 3 other fairly un-remarkable songs).
9 - Better By Far 1977
Mike Wedgewood leaves, replaced by Dek Messecar (from Darryl Way's Wolf);
guests- Vicki Brown - vocals, Fiona Hibbert - string harp, Tony Visconti -
recorders & electric double-bass a great instrumental show-piece for
G.Richardson in "The Last Unicorn" and a beautiful Pye Hastings song "Let it
Shine" are the high points. (the rest of the songs are unfortunately
unremarkable)
* - Cool Water (recorded 1977 / released
1994)
Dek Messecar leaves, replaced by Richard Sinclair (!) intended as follow-up
to (9), Arista refused to release album - broke contract and killed the band
(just like they did to the Strawbs with "Heartbreak Hill"). bonus tracks from
an aborted Pye Hastings solo project - Jimmy Hastings, John Gustafson -bass,
Ian Mosely-drums, Bob Edwards-keys (Gordon Giltrap's touring band) this is ,
sad to say, very forgettable stuff (albeit that i don't think these tracks
are completely finished). - the best track (one of the bonus tracks, at that)
being an amusing story about the fear of flying called "You'll never get me
up in one of those".
10 - the Album 1980
Jan Scheelhaas leaves, replaced by Dave Sinclair (!!!); guests - none;
pleseant enough songs, and at the time a much-welcomed release, but hardly
_essential_ to anyone but a collector.
11 - Back to Front 1982
band as (1)!!!!!; guests - Mel Collins - saxes; substatially better than (10)
(while not quite measuring up to a "classic"), with two quite good songs -
the opener "Back to Herne Bay Front" by Dave Sinclair and the closer "Proper
Job / Back to Front" by Richard Sinclair both are very witty stories about
the Story of Caravan.
12 - Battle of Hastings 1995
Richard Sinclair leaves (did he jump or was he pushed?), replaced by Jim
Leverton; Jimmy Hastings and Geoffrey Richarson listed as band-members
produced by Julian Hastings (Pye's son). although a lot of fans gripe about
the lack of solos or room to stretch out and jam (which had become a
well-established tradition, especially from (2) up to (8)), this is a very
strong album of _songs_, their best in that regard since (5)!
these are not anonymous corporate rock songs, or washed-up hacks trying to
milk the past. the band has been playing together (on an
irregular basis) since the Central-TV reunion in1990 and it shows.
Not a bad song in the bunch (although "Wendy wants another 6-inch mole" does
wear thin after repeated listenings (Pye Hastings day-job is
running a company that leases out construction equipment, a "mole" is a
tunnel-digging machine - but the implied double-entendre is intentional))
13 - All Over You 1996
band as (12); redone versions of songs from albums 1-5, some "unplugged" ,
some "techno" - a pointless exercise if you ask me!
**************************************************************
a list of live stuff availble on CD:
Caravan - Live 1990 (Central TV)
highlights: a 19-minute "nine feet underground" and a
13-minute "for richard" and the original line-up (including
Jimmy Hastings, who blows up a storm)
Caravan - BBC Radio 1 - Live in Concert (wincd 003)
highlights: a 15-minute "Love in Your Eye", a nearly
19-minute "for richard", and "Dabsong Conshirtoe" (just under
17-minutes).
Songs for Oblivious Fishermen (BBC sessions, part 1 - HUX 002)
most interesting are straight band (non-orchestrated )
versions of "A hunting we shall go/Backwards" (from (5) ), "Mirror for the
Day" & "Virgin on the Ridiculous" (both from (6) ).
Ether Way (BBC sessions, part 2 - HUX 013)
live stuff from (7) , (8), and (9) - which hadn't been
readily availble before (even among tape-traders)
note:there was an excellent 2-LP set called "The Best Of Caravan - Live" put
out by Kingdom Records ( who released (10) and (11) ) sometime in the early
to mid 80s, the liner notes are essentially non-existant, but the show
supposedly is from 75-76 from France, and is pretty much a "Greatest Hits" .
**********************************************
some notable solo (and related) releases:
a- Richard Sinclair: Caravan of Dreams 1992
with Andy Ward (of Camel) on drums, Dave Sinclair (who's he?)
on keys, Rick Biddulph (National Health) on bass, and Jimmy Hastings-flute &
sax; 3 of the 7 studio songs were co-written with Hugh Hopper (from a project
which at the time was still unreleased - later issued by Voiceprint in it's
entirety) one of the other studio tracks has lyrics by Pip Pyle (Hatfield &
the North, National Health). the CD also features a 4-part live suite that
begins and ends with Hatfield & the North tunes ("Halfway Between Heaven and
Earth" and "It Didn't Matter Anyway"). the album has a loose, jammy feeling,
like friends getting together to play music, that only incidentally got
recorded - but don't get me wrong, this isn't aimless noodling or sloppy
playing.
b- Richard Sinclair: An Evening of Magic (live - 2CD) 1993
A.Ward, R.Biddulph, D.Sinclair play almost all of the above
CD (including the two Hatfield & the North tunes), a number of songs from "In
the Land of Grey & Pink" (including a miniature version of "Nine Feet
Underground"), and the Robert Wyatt/Matching Mole song "OCaroline".
c- Richard Sinclair: RSVP 1994
a huge cast of characters on this one, with different
combinations of musicians on almost every track. Andy Ward, Pip Pyle,
Hugh Hopper, Jimmy Hastings, Didier Malherbe (Gong), Kit Watkins (Happy the
Man, Camel). only 4 of the 10 pieces on the CD are songs, and aside from Pip
Pyle's acerbic commentary on "What's Rattlin'" are more-or-less beside the
point, this is first and foremost an instrumentalists album with outstanding
playing from everyone involved.
d- David Sinclair:Moon Over Man (recorded 1976 / released 1993)
these are demos from a solo project that never got off the
ground. (the tracks feature a full band, although no "names" from the
Canterbury Scene) the music covers a wide range of radio-friendly styles of
the era and feature little of what i would consider Dave's "trademark-sound".
time has not been kind, so this is one for the Completeists only.
(of more interest are sessions that Dave did with a band called "The Polite
Force", jazzier instrumentals - also released on Voiceprint)
e- Geoffrey Richardson: Viola Mon Amour 1993
all instrumental, with everything played by G.Richardson
himself, including not only viola and violin, but acoustic and electric
guitar, bass, kalimba, penny whistles, sequencers and samplers. Richardson is
(was? - i'm not sure if the group still exists following the untimely death
of founder/leader Simon Jeffes) part of the Penguin Cafe Orchestra, and this
music can ve said to be fruit of the same tree - if you are unfamiliar with
the PCO, they are hard to describe, but are essentially a small chamber
orchestra with "(prog) rock" sensibilities.
f - Michael Wedgewood: Places Like These 1993
i haven't listened to this in a while, and admittedly it
didn't exactly blow me away, but from what i remember it is a
pleasant, if low-key, listening experience. i would be happy
to give a fuller report upon re-listening, if anybody out there really cares.
g- John G. Perry: Uncle Seabird
1995
the previously unreleased follow-up to the fantastic "Sunset
Wading" (we NEED a CD re-issue!!!) and it pales in the shadow of it's
predecessor. a great line-up of musicians...Mike Giles
(King Crimson) on drums, Rupert Hine on Keys, Morris Pert on percussion,
G.Richardson on viola and flute...playing (to my ears) unremarkable music.
h- Rick Biddulph: Second Nature
1994
the bassist from R.Sinclair's Caravan of Dreams with a very
nice project. some of the tunes are instruments made for the soundtrack of
Greenpeace films, others are jazz-rock instrumentals, one is a pretty good
prog-rock song, and another is an odd "ballad" sung by Barbara Gaskins (one
of the Northettes, backing vocalists for Hatfield and the North)
i - Hugh Hopper & Richard Sinclair: Somewhere in France -(recorded
1983/released 1996)
this is the project that provided several of the songs for
R.Sinclair's first solo CD, here released in it's entirety. while
sounding slightly "unfinished", these are GREAT songs, with fine playing from
all involved and EXCELLENT singing by Richard. "Long Lingers Autumn
Time" (unavailable anywhere else) deserves to be a Cnaterbury Classic!
j - Peter Barden's Mirage: LIVE 14.12.94
this _should_ have been a killer...Pete Bardens and Andy Ward
from Camel, Dave Sinclair and Pye & Jimmy Hastings from Caravan, with Rick
Biddulph and Steve Adams (Bardens' guitarist) playing Camel and Caravan
favourites (along with a few Bardens solo tunes and Biddulph's "Lizard on a
Rock"). unfortunately the band sounds underrehearsed and overworked (with 5
shows spread between Holland and England inside of a week) and they don't
quite "all pull together as a team" (although they _do_ make a valiant effort), i found myself relieved
that i _didn't_ go over for one of the shows (unlike many of the regrets i
have over _not_ acting like a member of the jet-set)
From:
The first 'S/T' Caravan, 'If I Could Do It Again, I'd Do It All Over You,'
and the archival collection, 'Songs For Oblivion Fishermen' are extremely
beautiful and very worthy additions to a 'Land Of Grey And Pink' lovers'
collection. The 'reunion' live Caravan from 1992 on Demon Records is quite
great also. I agree, Richard Sinclair is one of the transcendent ones, his
singing is way cool. Check out the Terry Riley releases on the Cortical
Foundation label, namely 'Reed Streams,' 'Poppy Nogood and The Phantom Band ~
All Night Flight' and 'Persian Surgery Dervishes.' They are fully tripped out
and essential I think. I've listened to a ton of Riley and I lean to the more
psychedelic works of his, but I think these in particular really deliver the
goods and the vibe.
From: Gary Davis <>
>Many of the first 4 Caravan's feature Richard on vocals as well as
bass.The 2 Hatfield & the North releases '74-5 feature his best work in
collaboration with Pip Pyle, Dave Stewart and Phil Miller, and the 2 Camels
'77-8 (made after he agreed to give up making furniture for a living) have
great work. The only recent Sinclair vocal I've heard is his cover of Genesis
"For Absent Friends" (actually an early Philpiece), on the US tribute double
CD.
Actually, Richard Sinclair has released a couple new albums in the past
few years. The most recent is called RSVP. It features a lot of the
Canterbury musicians and is truly and excellent album! It really has that
feel of the early Canterbury sound, more so than anything else I've heard
recently. This was released by Richard on his own label, Sinclair Songs.
You'll find it at <>
along with a soundbite. Also highly recommended is the album he did right
before it called Caravan of Dreams. It was released by HTD Records <>.
It has both studio and live tracks. I like both of these albums even though I
give the edge to RSVP. But of those I know who've heard both albums, it's
usually a toss up as to which they like best. Also of interest is an archival
recording called Somewhere in France that is a collection of demo recordings
that Richard did with Hugh Hopper sometime in the late '80's. Some of the
songs were later developed and showed up on Caravan of Dreams, while other
songs can only be found on this album alone. This collection was released by
Voiceprint <>.
After Caravan of Dreams, Richard released a double live album called An
Evening of Magic, which came out on the Italian label, Mellow Records. This
is somewhat hard to get now and I don't have access to it. So Richard has
somewhat resurrected himself in the '90's and continues to make music, and
quite excellent music at that. I last spoke with him earlier this week, so I
know that he's working on some more projects right now.
From: Rick Mealey <> Subject: I Can See Your House From Here ===== does anybody else think that this.... >16. Camel - I Can See Your House From Here (England, 1979) .....is Camel's absolute _worst_ album. i don't mind seeing the band onn the list, but to pick _that_ album seems insulting. (do you think it's just because Kit Watkins plays on this one?) ===== I'm old enough to remember Moonmadness actually receiving airplay on my local megawatt rock station-- they played Lunar Sea quite frequently. But I don't quite agree that ICSYHFH is without merit. On that album, the low points were lower and the high points were a bit higher by comparison. I mean, Your Love Is Stranger Than Mine was cack, to be blunt (I recall much was made of Phil Collins' presence on that track, though if you listened for him in the mix, he wasn't there). Remote Romance was only OK, but it took some getting used to. II recall a figure skater from Poland skating to Ice some years ago, and that's about as much as can be said for *that* song. On the other hand, Hymn To Her and Wait both stop me dead in my tracks even today-- I heard Hymn To Her on Spinner.com some weeks ago and broke out in a cold sweat, it was so good. And yeah, Watkins probably has something to do with it-- but that's not to suggest that the songs themselves wouldn't stand up even without Watkins. Shudder to think. Can anyone here offer an opinion on the album Latimer did with the severely underrated Anthony Phillips? I think it was called The Singles Factor or some such cynical nonsense. I'd seek it out just for the presence of Phillips-his work since leaving Genesis is definitely worth your time, people-- if anyone could confirm that it was worth the effort.
From: "Julius J. SAROKA" <> since you _like_ ICSYHFH, you will probably like "Single Factor" as well. (I think it's pretty good, for what it is.) BUT don't buy it for AP! he's only on one (maybe two) track, even though it _is_ the best thing on the album. (an instrumental, called 'Sasquatch'). but you'll probably want somebody-else's opinion since we disagree so strongly on ICSYHFH.. From: "Craig A. Shipley" <> Subject: RE: I Can See Your House From Here Well. my opinion is at polar opposites as far as "Ice" is concerned (pun alert!), as I think it the high point of the entire release. One of the most emotional use of synthesizers (to that point in time) committed to vinyl. "Remote Romance " was a silly little bit of electronic fluff, enjoyable, but, well, fluffy... We do agree on "Wait", but "Hymn To Her" is a little to commercial for my liking. We can agree to disagree... Phew! If people think that ICSYHFH was a stinker, dis be da stink-BOMB! A few redeeming tunes, like "Sasquatch"(instrumental) and one or two others which I can't remember the names of, but this is really about as low as Camel ever got. It is not that the performances were bad, it was just that the tune-smithing was weak. Fortunately, Latimer pulled it out of its' nose dive and they have gotten better ever since. I think there was a corresponding physical/emotional crisis at the time of this recording, which may account for its stinkyness. But, since you know my take on ICSYHFH's tunes, you may want to blow my opinion completely off...
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