Also see: Baja Prog '99 ~ Townscream ~ Baja Prog 2000 ~ Kollar Attila ~ Vedres Csaba ~ NEARfest 2001 ~ Tiana 2004
Bookmarks: F?d ? ? ~ Almost Pure Instrumental ~ "6" ~ Struggle for Life ~ Bootleg Symphony
From: Richard Stockwell richard@cranium.co.nz
After Crying: A Hungarian band who have always stated that King Crimson is
their main influence. However Emerson Lake & Palmer can be heard in the early
CD releases. Mega............... (real long title) and De Profundis are the
peak of their output. Music that creates atmosphere and tingles up the spine.
The keyboards/piano player is now in a band called Townscream who have one
excellent release out. The Hungarian vocals on the After Crying releases
might put some people off. However the music has long instrumental passages
and the Hungarian vocals only help to enhance the whole feel about their
music. Sound Samples in Real Audio from De Profundis can be heard at the
Cranium website. http://www.cranium.co.nz
From: Richard Stockwell
Another keyboards player worth checking out is Vedres Csaba who played piano
and keyboards in the Hungarian band After Crying. Vedres Csaba now has a band
called Townscream who so far have one release called "Nagyvarosi Ikonok" (Big
City Icons). You will not be disappointed in the keyboards & piano playing of
this man. For all the criticism that some people level at 90's prog being too
retro and not defining originality I believe some of the music coming out now
is as heart stirring as any of the classics.
From: "Gamantyo Hendrantoro" <>
> I recently purchased After Crying's- Fold Es Eg from some >
recommendations.Planning to go > again to Nearfest I like to have some clue
about the bands.I guess it > wasn't what I expected. > Too mellow and church
like for what I had hoped.JMO.
I guess there are two phases when people talk about AC's musical
development. Some people, myself included, prefer the chamber sound that they
developed early in their career, as observeable in their first and second
albums (Overground Music and Megalazottak es Megszomoritottak). IMHO in this
phase they sounded very original that I can't think of any other band I can
compare them with. Starting with Fold es Eg, they moved to a more symphonic
approach and began to show ELP's and Crimson's influences more explicitly
with the adoption of Emersonic keyboards and Frippish electric guitar sound
and playing, whereas the chamber sound still appears here and there but never
takes the centre stage again. While I still like their music from this second
phase, the first and (especially) the second album are my favorites over the
others. So if you don't like their chamber-style music, try anything after
Fold es Eg. De Profundis, their fourth album, is generally what people
consider their best. Perhaps the live album, Struggle for Life, which
includes a.o. an orchestrated rendition of Crimson's Starless, with Wetton
guesting on vocal and bass, will also be a good introduction.
From: "Richard Stockwell"
Re: Almost Pure Instrumental
Each new release by this Hungarian band goes to cementing their name on the
wall among the progressive music giants and while you will hear snippets of
influence from the masters such as ELP and KING CRIMSON you will also hear
total originality. This release is the first of a new series of AFTER CRYING
remasters but it also includes 4 new compositions. The remastered tracks and
the previous releases they were on, are : Overture (Nyitany) from "First
Decade" (Elso Evitized); Big Evil Fun Fair Final (Short Version), Sleeping
Chaplin, S.O.S., Struggle For Life, all from "After Crying 6". The Insulted &
Injured (Megalazottak .. ), In The End (Vegul) are both from "Megalazottak es
Megszomoritottak". Suburban Night (Kulvarosi ej) from "De Profundis". Rondo
from "Earth & Sky" (Fold es eg), Shining from "Overground Music". The four
new compositions are : Aqua, Windblown Waltz, Pilgrims' March & Sonata for
Violoncello & Piano (In one movement). Over 68 minutes worth of symphonic
progressive and classical delight. A Review Track by Track:
1./ Overture 2:29; Although After Crying have never mentioned American
composer Aaron Copland as an influence it is certainly there in some of this
Hungarian band's music. Overture features big wide cinematic music that gives
you the feeling of the American plains with it's miles and miles of open
territory that Copeland's music so vividly portrayed. You can also hear the
same style in the now famous "Fanfare for The Common Man" which both ELP and
the 1976? Olympics theme tune made famous. You remember that piece of music ?
... well that was written by Aaron Copeland.
2./Aqua 1:58; This is the first of the four new tracks that feature on this
release. Very pastoral with beautiful flute and cello. You can just picture a
song bird such as a thrush singing in the meadow to this track which at 1:58
is over far too quickly.
3./Big Evil Fun Fair Final 5:32; This opens again with a big classical style
fanfare and then moves into dark imagery with the use of oboe, French horn,
Bassoon, Trumpet, Trombone and Saxophone. Then a guitar played with feedback
enters the picture and we are off on another After Crying cinematic
excursion. The strength of this band lies in the fact they not only have the
world's best piano & keyboard player but as a chamber orchestra and brass
ensemble they are unmatched in musicianship, feel and skill.
4./Windblown Waltz 3:09; The second of the four new tracks features
trumpet,keyboards,flute,cello,guitar and sounds which is the wind blowing
through this track as the music goes through a pastoral setting, with a hint
of celtic folk just touching the surface. By track four the flow of this
album can already be felt which on many of their previous releases wasn't
there as the music jumped from one style to the next.
5./Pilgrim's March 5:11; Another new track and this one is shiver up the
spine stuff as the guitar, reminiscent of Court Of The Crimson King era,
slides in over a shuffling drum beat that has a hint of drum 'n' bass and
also aided by piano & trumpet. This track is credited to Peter Pejtsik (After
Crying) and classical composer Mendelssohn. Gorgeous !
6./Sonata For Violoncello & Piano 3:35; Kronos Quartet eat your heart out.
This track is just Winkler (piano) & Pejtsik (violoncello) rocking out and
the two make this classical/rock piece sound like a band rather than just two
players. This track is the 4th new number on this release.
7./Sleepin' Chaplin 2:38; From the album After Crying 6 this mixes pastoral
style King Crimson with the Aaron Copeland "wide" sound and a little lilting
folk played on flute.
8./Suburban Night 3:32; Another King Crimson style track with it's atonal
guitar notes played quietly as the cello and then trumpet enter the picture
to give a feel similar to "Larks Tongue In Aspic". This is another track with
fantastic depth and feel.
9./The Insulted & Injured 11:40; This is the great track from the second
album (Megalazottal es Megszomoritettak) which is reminiscent of ELP's
"Pictures at an Exhibition" period whilst introducing the After Crying style.
This track is one of two on the album that features vocals in Hungarian but
the words are reproduced in English in the booklet.
10./Rondo 3:43; Piano, Synth, Bass and Drums create this ELP style track that
was on the album "Fold Es Eg".
11./S.O.S. 2:35; This track is another ELP influenced track with string
orchestra added.
12./Strugglr For Life 9:12; A two part track with music set to a poem called
"With A Pure Heart" and from the album After Crying 6. Although the poem is
read in Hungarian it is haunting and the lyrics are reproduced in English in
the booklet. The second part of the track is very orchestral with all the
parts reproduced on keyboards.
13./In The End 2:29; A haunting number that evolves into a flamenco style jig
that only lasts a few bars before the drums play a solo with the Korg
featuring quiet backing. Strange to say the least as if this piece is the end
of a track .... just as the title suggests.
14./Shining 11:48; This track is from the album "Overground Music" and
features a lilting female vocal with the After Crying chamber music style
accompanying her on piano, cello, viola, flute, oboe, bassoon, trumpet &
trombone.
If you don't own any After Crying albums this release is a very good place to
start as it covers the spectrum of their releases. This is progressive music
at the far end of the prog spectrum in that it is very classical and
introduces a chamber orchestra style. At the same time the music has very
good depth and the musicians who make up this band are very very skillful and
know how to mix it up with both classical and rock styles. Although you can
hear obvious influences of King Crimson, ELP and American composer Aaron
Copeland in the music it is in no way mere copy cat stuff.
From: "Andrew J. Rozsa" <>
After Crying is my favorite rock group of all time. I find them brilliant.
From: "Richard Stockwell" <>
I'll second that. If this band had come out in the era of prog's rein (early
70's) they would likely be super stars by now. But at least their music
hasn't been riddled by hype that hit all the other stars so I think the
musicianship stays more honest to itself. After reading about the number of
"dropped jaws" when they played at the last Baja Festival I'm surprised there
hasn't been more talk about After Crying.
From: "Andrew J. Rozsa" <>
What a wonderful sight to see, on this quarter's Progression magazine
(Spring/Summer 1999), a man playing the cello and singing his heart out.
Peter Pejtsik of After Crying, of course. John "Bo Bo" Bollenberg wrote the
article (pp.30-33) that I would have liked to have written. Of course, he
actually got to interview the guys. Did good for my lil' ole Hungarian heart.
From: Andrew
Rozsa <>
>I read on the John Wetton's site that there is a live record from After
Crying, featuring him performing Starless. Was it released already or just
planned? Sounds very interesting.
From
http://pons.sote.hu/~bauvikt/before.html we learn that: A new double live
album "Struggle for Life" will be released in the beginning of 2000. It
contains more than 130 minute live material including the immortal King
Crimson masterpiece "Starless". After Crying will go on tour in the Spring of
2000. Check for dates in February. * * * John Wetton and After
Crying performing "Starless" together!
From: Andrew Rozsa <> Subject: Re: After Crying pix Some great photos from the March 19, 2000 exclusive concert at the Hungarian Consulate in New York City can be seen on the site of Gyorffy Gabriella. http://www.gimagine.com/After-Crying-web/page1.htm Quite a few of them... can't miss them if you are a fan.... clearly, Gabriella is. :-)
From: Mike De Lang
<>
I just wanted to comment briefly on a few CD's that I've purchased recently.
After Crying- F?d ? ?: Of the three After Crying CD's I own, This is my
favorite. I like the Frippish guitar solo on it and the piano, for some
reason, reminds me alot of John Tout's work on Scheherazade. Awesome!!!
From: "Marc P. Guilbert" <>
Subject: After Crying in Baltimore March 18
Well, probably the easiest way to describe these guys is to say they're the
rebirth of England's Enid, in the sense of being the world's smallest
symphony orchestra. But while the Enid played in the grand British tradition
of Elgar, say, After Crying have a distinctive eastern European sound. They
also smuggle in bits of Cabaret jazz and King Crimson sonorities, so they are
no one's clone band. There were 6 onstage: Gabor Legradi: vox, keyboard, Zoltan Lengyel:
keyboards, Balazs Winkler: trumpet/keyboard, Zsolt Madai: drums/keyboard,
PeterPejtsik: cello/bass guitar/vox, Ferenc Torma: guitar/keyboard/vox.
In addition, one of the soundboard operators (Gabor Egervari) contributed
flute/vox from his perch at the rear of Orion Studios. The total mix sounded
truly symphonic, at least occasionally, due to canny programming of the
synths as well as the presence of cello and trumpet. The scraping of the bow
across the strings was enough to put the stamp of authenticity onto the
symphonic passages, making them sound organic, not synthetic. And as a bonus,
the cellist (Peter) was the front man; he reminded me of none other than
Derek Shulman of Gentle Giant in their prime, with the cagy grins and snide
looks he gave to everyone, as well as the obvious joy he felt playing. I'm
sure everyone else on stage was enjoying themselves also; Peter just exuded
it the most.
They played many of the songs from their new 2 CD live set, "Struggle for
Life", as well as other songs from their various albums. Some aspects of the
Orion performance actually exceeded the live album, including a more focused
and interesting drum solo where the drummer used the Louis Belson trick of
pressing on his toms with one drumstick while hitting the toms with another
to get interesting tuning variations. Unfortunately, though, John Wetton
didn't join in for a rendition of King Crimson's "Starless", or "Stalker" as
recorded in "Struggle". We can't have everything! Instead, we got "Cool
Night" which was on Elso Evtized as "Jo Ejt!" and "A Novelty", also from Elso
Evtized. And one thing left competely intact from "Struggle for Life": the
final half hour long "Hommage to Keith Emerson", which rocked the house the
hardest.
I understand that they were using much borrowed/leased equipment, so an
equipment list won't be as meaningful as it would be normally. But FWIW, the
keys player used an Alesis board for piano sounds mostly and a Korg Trinity
and another Roland board. The trumpet player frequently played piano and
organ parts on an Alesis board, and the guitarist used another Roland board,
which the singer and drummer occasionally used as well. One of the night's
many highlights was during the guitarist's solo spot, where he performed
blindingly fast runs on his guitar just with his left hand hitting the
strings on the fretboard while accompanying himself on the keyboard with his
right hand. Bravo! And Peter Pejtsik was a joy to watch throughout the whole
evening, particularly when he did his cello solo "Stonehenge" from De
Profundis. He alluded to his borrowed cello (actually an electric one that
was basically a stick) by saying that this was the first time that piece
would be played on that instrument. I rather liked the sound Peter got from
it, and I imagine it was easier for the sound crew to get it into the mix
just right. Interestingly, it was the trumpet player, and not the dedicated
keyboardist, who did most of the involved piano solos, frequently while
playing his trumpet simultaneously!
Given the small size of the venue, the sound quality was for the most part
excellent, with the volume level at the perfect level of enveloping you
without deafening you. I was also impressed with the drummer's economy of
motion, reminding me of Bill Bruford in that regard. Probably the most
jarring aspect to the performances was the presence of Ferenc's distorted
guitar sonorities on "Hommage a Frank Zappa", which works so well on Elso
Evtized with solely acoustic instruments. You could count obvious mistakes on
one hand, and those were greeted from smiles shared between the drummer and
trumpet player.
They were going on from Maryland to New York to play at an invitation-only
show at the Hungarian Embassy. Their manager expressed to me the hope that
contacts there would lead to a far more extensive US tour later this year or
next year. I certainly hope that comes to pass! This is one band that
deserves to be seen.
If anything was missing, it was their former keyboardist Cszaba Vedres. But
he was there in spirit, not to mention in 2 CD's being hawked alongside the
After Crying CD's: his Townscream project and a solo piano disk called "Mesek,
Levelek" which I hadn't heard of before. I've listened to some of it, and
it's quite pleasant, reminiscent of Keith Emerson's original "Take a Pebble"
piano solo on the ELP debut album.
And I mentioned the 5 hour drive bit because the band's manager and all the
members had heard I was making that drive, and seemed impressed. I personally
didn't think the drive was such a big deal, but leave it to the internet to
allow stuff like this to spread to the most unlikely places. Bersides, the 10
hours alone in my car was filled with lots of great prog listening, of
course, mostly Canterbury.
From: "Elliot Levy" <>
Subject: Re: After Crying in Baltimore March 18
All of their albums are quite good, however I regard Overground Music's
European Things (Hommage a Frank Zappa), Fold es Eg's Manticore II and 6's
Conclusion as quite unique. Specially after seen them live.
From: Andrew Rozsa <>
Subject: Re: After Crying: excerpt from an interview
I am not perfectly happy with the translation, but it will do. This is a
specific question during an interview by Drot Magazin (Wire Magazine) in
November 1999, after the Struggle for Life Tour. The entire interview in
English is at:
http://w3.datanet.hu/~aftercry/engsite.html Click on the FAQ
[.........] On the progressive rock. As
a matter of fact, we are a little bit ambivalent with this "progressive"
thing. We are interested only in music general, but not in labels and
categories. ELP and King Crimson were always and are now the real
contemporary music for us, and they never labeled themselves as
"progressive". They wanted to make contemporary music just as we do. What
these two bands and their determinant members did, in our book are above all
the other music of our time. The current progressive world is a very narrow
community, everybody knows everybody in person, so it is like a family.
However, it's great to belong to this family, because the "progressive"
audience is the most wonderful we ever met. And almost the same goes with the
magazines, journalists in prog circuits. But we want to bring our music and
productions much wider scale of people. In the current progressive scene
there are tons of very talented and skilled musicians, and very few good
composers. We feel that in most of the cases to be progressive means trying
to play as many notes per second as possible, to be very complicated and to
play as long pieces as possible. The real problem is that the rock itself is
dying today, just like the culture in general, and as things go now, in a few
years each one of western people will have his/her own virtual bands
From: Lamia2112@aol.com Subject: Re: Lots of
Progressive Music
Of the After Crying I've heard, which are the first three, "Overground
Music", "Megal?ottak ? Megszomor?ottak" and "F?d ? ?", the latter is
definitely the most ELP influenced, with the first two having a more somber,
dark classical, chamber orchestra feel. Keyboardist and main composer on
these albums is Csaba Vedres, who is a monster. The first half of "F?d ? ?"
is very upbeat and ELP-esque, probably quite intentionally so, and almost
functions as a tribute to the group. The second half reverts back to the
chamber rock style explored on the first two albums, which works
phenomenally. It's probably a great place to start exploring the group for
keyboard fanatics, prior to perhaps digging back into "Megal?ottak ?
Megszomor?ottak", which is IMO their masterpiece, though lacking the ELP
vibe. Also worth pursuing is the AC offshoot Townscream, which was formed by
Vedres after he left the group. "Nagyv?osi Ikonok" is heavily keyboard
oriented, yet varied in its approach, carrying over much of the early After
Crying feel. A brilliant album.
, movies, movie stars, etc., which are created by him/her, and enjoyed by
exclusively him/her as well. So, if people around the world don't fight
commercialism, modernism, and plutocracy, the whole civilization will die
relatively soon. [........]
From: "Andrew &
Jo Holborn" <> Subject: Re: new releases
Hi, I have After Crying's "6". It has parts reminiscent of King Crimson's
more chaotic cacophony of sounds. There are also parts which are very
beautiful, classical styled songs. If you don't like that, though, you might
find "6" a bore. Other sections remind me ELP without the keyboard
flourishes. Fusion influences are also present reminding me a little of
Coliseum. Having said that, the band are quit unique but definitely require
undistracted listening.
From: "Andrew
J. Rozsa" <> Subject: Re: After Crying's "Bootleg Symphony"
Seeing a request for Finnish translation I remembered that I promised Otso a
review of AC's "Bootleg Symphony ["Koncertszimf?ia"]."
I'll make this one short and sweet... I absolutely delighted myself and
listened to the CD several times. My wife thought it was "copelandish," and
couldn't care less. But remember, she thinks Leonora No. 3 is the greatest
piece of music ever composed, so you can't really trust her judgment - and if
you tell her I said so, I will deny it.
This is NOT the album to start your After Crying listening experience, since,
unless you know the pieces, you may not find them particularly attractive.
Almost all the tracks have been heard on previous albums, albeit, sometimes
in hugely different form. The influence of folk music is there in many
variations, as we expect from AC. This is modern symphonic music, with prog
elements, rather than what we usually hear, which is prog based on symphonic
music. Strong brass, strings, etc. frequently take the foreground, although
Lengyel Zolt?'s piano, Pejtsik P?er's cello or bass, Madai Zsolt's
percussions, Torma Ferenc's guitar, and Winkler Balazs' trumpet are always in
strong evidence. Andrejszki Judit's vocals remind me of PLP's Magdalena.
Legradi Gabor's voice it's pleasant and clear. The instrumental expertise of
the players is, as always, exceptionally good.
Don't be surprised if you hear Gershwin or Oldfield styles. The dynamic range
of the music is terrific: from very delicately lyrical (Track 5) to almost
belligerently BIG sound (e.g. Track 9). And, of course, the humor in Track
12's "Burlesque" is well know to all. I dare you not to smile.
It helps if you understand the lyrics, but you don't need them, since the
music stands on its own merit. If you are keen on translations, English
translations are available at AC's site:
http://www.aftercrying.hu/eng-lyr.html
This was played for an audience who expected and got modern classical music.
["bootleg" refers to the fact that this was a live stereo recording at the
Liszt Ferenc Music Academy in Budapest - I think; I am going to start
exporting cough suppressants to Hungary and make a fortune! :-(]
The quality of the recording is good, but the sound of the tracks is
variable. Frequently the endings are not polished - they end abruptly, mainly
because several tracks will make up a Part. Otherwise, the album is near
studio quality.
Overall, I love the album, but then these musicians cannot do wrong by me: I
like everything they did or do. Having said that, I reiterate: this is not a
"starter's" album. If you have heard the music before and liked, you will
have a very pleasant surprise... this is the extension of that music further
into what I consider "modern classical."
If you like AC, definitely get this album. Regards to all, AndrewR
The album is in four parts and the tracks listing is as follows:
I 1.Viaduct Symphonic version / szimfonikus v?tozat
2. Struggle for Life I-II (including: Enigma) Symphonic version / szimfonikus
v?tozat
3. Enigma Symphonic version / szimfonikus v?tozat
4. Struggle for Life II
II 5. Suburban Night / K?v?osi ? from Struggle for Life '
6. Cool Night / J??t from Struggle for Life '
7. Night-Red / ?szaka New release / ? kiad?
8. Cool Night (reprise)
III 9. Arrival of Manticore I / Manticore ?kez?e I Symphonic version /
szimfonikus v?tozat
10. Aqua Almost Pure Instrumental '
11. Intermezzo After Crying 6 '
12. Burlesque After Crying 6 '
IV. 13. Finale (from "Big Evil Fun Fair Final") Original orchestration from
After Crying 6 '
14. Shinin' Original orchestration from Overground Music 6 '
From: Ra? F. Rueda <>
Subject: RE: After Crying's "Bootleg Symphony"
Now that you mentioned AC, is there any consensus on which of their albums is
considered the best? I love this band, and it was the first from the 90s
vintage I listened to. IMHO, FeE seems "sensibly" better that "De Profundis",
which I consider "technically" better.
From: "Surjorimba Suroto" <>
Subject: Re: RE: After Crying's "Bootleg Symphony"
Ra? F. Rueda wrote: >Now that you mentioned AC,
is there any consensus on which of their albums is
considered the best?
Ignoring their compilation and live albums, I love Megalazottak es
Megs.... most.
From: "Andrew J. Rozsa" <>
Subject: Re: RE: After Crying's "Bootleg Symphony"
I understand your question, but I have no answer for you. Others'
mileage will vary. I don't listen to albums.
I listen to music. To me, the music of a group like AC, is like a bagful of
real (not cultured) pearls. They may not be
perfect, in fact it is the flaws that make them unique. Each is beautiful and
valued on its own right. Some are bigger, some are smaller, some
are rounder, others are more misshapen. Yet, when you make a necklace
out of them, you have true beauty to behold.
Similarly, any given one track of an artist or artists may appeal to me
one time more than others, but all will fit into the overall picture,
over time.
Depending on my mood, which is variable, and the environment,
circumstances, and listening device, I may pick one track today as
delightful, and another tomorrow.
I don't participate in polls (although I find them interesting) because I
don't listen to albums by year of release or category. I hear about a 1972
album in 2001, and that album may be the best I have heard in February
of 2001. The same album may leave me substantially less satisfied 2
months later. And vice versa. I find a group that touches me and it's quite
possible that I will acquire everything that group has released and
will listen to nothing but them for several weeks on end.
AC's style of music, their instrumental skills, their philosophy, their
evolution over the years, their fitness with my own cultural heritage
all combine to make them my all time most favorite musical creators. Today.
But I felt this way about Walter/Wendy Carlos in
the late 60s, Tangerine Dream and Pink Floyd in the 70s, the Italian and
German proggers in the 80s, my electronic musician friends in the 90s, etc.
Sometimes my likes and dislikes run seasonally...
last Christmas and this year's I couldn't get enough of TSO's 3 albums, for
instance. Occasionally I listened to operatic
Christmas albums, or gospel singing, even a cappella, but I kept returning to
TSO. Next year? Who knows? :-)
As far as consensus is concerned.... I'll be absolutely amazed if there
IS consensus..... which is what makes this list absolutely a pleasure
to read.
From: "Andrew J. Rozsa" <>
Date: Tue Jan 29, 2002 10:26 pm
Subject: Re: [e-Prog] new Vedres Csaba and Korai Orom available
ADVERTISEMENT
Some of you asked...so here it is:
I found a Hungarian source for Vedres Csaba and Korai Orom.
I bought the following:
Vedres Csaba: "Zongorazene" (Piano Music) CD; XP006
Vedres Csaba: "EPHATA I. - Tortured & Formatted" CD; XP013
Vedres Csaba: "L?ekt?c" (Spirit Dance) CD; SKKTCD202
Korai ??: "2001", CD; KORAI0006
and Emil is selling them for $10 a piece
plus $5 for shipping... so the 4
CDs above will cost $45, everything included. Emil Biljarszki is the
pomoter and manager for the group Korai Orom (see reviews at e-prog Website) and now also the export manager for Fono Records (Hungary).
Write him directly at <> or visit the store at:
http://www.fonorecords.hu/cdaruhaz/ and check out the Katalogus. They are
listing only the new stuff, but they have a lot, if not everything we need
from Vedres and Korai Orom. I have asked about Solaris and After Crying,
will let you know. Dont' worry about the Hungarian. They speak English and
eventually will have everything tri-lingually. Meanwhile, ask me... I will
translate, or look for stuff for you.
J?zen?, mindenkinek.
AndrewR